United Airlines allegedly threatened to deplane an entire flight as it sought to convince passengers in its Polaris Business Class cabin on a flight from Los Angeles to London to give up their seats for flight attendants because the onboard crew bunk facilities were out of order.
The incident occurred on Sunday evening as United flight UA923, operated by a nine-year-old Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner, was preparing to depart for the overnight transatlantic crossing to England.
Here’s a new one— if we don’t get volunteers, we will deplane
byu/Dokindo inunitedairlines
According to one of the passengers onboard the flight, gate agents informed everyone onboard that the crew bunk facilities were out of order and despite attempts by maintenance personnel to fix the issue, the bunks were still unservicable.
With a flight time of more than ten hours, both FAA regulations and the United flight attendant contract, require crew members to be able to get some rest during the flight to ensure they are not fatigued during critical phases of flight like coming into land.
It’s not known why the crew bunks were out of order, although typical issues include problems with the heating or lighting, as well as the emergency oxygen supply.
Instead of canceling a flight, airlines will then typically block out seats in a Business Class cabin with fully lay-flat seats so that flight attendants can get ‘horizontal’ rest as required by their contract.
On Sunday evening, however, there weren’t enough seats available in the Polaris cabin so United was forced to find three volunteers willing to downgrade themselves to Economy Plus.
By the point, that engineers had tried and failed to fix the issue in the crew bunks, passengers had already boarded the plane so gate agents boarded the aircraft and initially offered $1,500 and 75,000 MileagePlus frequent flyer miles.
None of the passengers were willing to accept that offer, so the gate agents warned that the entire plane might be deplaned if they couldn’t find any volunteers.
They then upped their offer to $2,500 in compensation, at which point, three volunteers were found to give up their seats in Business Class, and in the end, flight UA923 took off less than an hour late.
Technically, United didn’t need to find volunteers to voluntarily downgrade themselves, although airlines are reluctant to use these powers after the infamous Dr David Dao incident in 2018.
In that incident, Dr Dao was left bruised and battered when security agents dragged him off a United plane at Chicago O’Hare in order to make way for deadheading flight attendants.
The Department of Transportation (DOT) sets out rules for how and when airlines can involuntarily bump or downgrade passengers, and in most cases, once a passenger has already boarded a flight, then airlines can’t then involuntarily bump them.
There are, however, some exceptions, including for safety or security reasons, as well as if the passenger is being unruly.
In the case of flight UA923, United would be able to argue that the downgrades were necessary for safety reasons because the flight attendants would need the opportunity to get some much-needed rest on the flight.
When involuntarily downgraded on the same flight, passengers aren’t entitled to compensation, but airlines must refund the fare difference between the higher and lower class of travel.
Having paid for mightily for business would take a downgrade to economy for $1,500? Why waste time and effort with a disingenuous offer.
Flight attendants cannot get rest in Economy Plus seats? Not a very good endorsement of their own product, is it?
The article states that the contact requires “horizonal” rest. Economy Plus reclines, but doesn’t lay in a horizonal position.
The article clearly stated that the flight attendant union contract stipulates horizontal rest, thus they must be use a lie-flat business seat if the crew rest cannot be used. That has nothing to do with the premium economy seat.
it’s what their contract calls for – this is why they strike so they can get their way to force a paying customer to either downgrade or to be bumped from the flight altogether. Personally I’d say they should get an economy plus seat no matter what
Its the FAA that also that requires it , if they cannot get rest guess what, nobody goes!
You people are fulls
What part of “horizontal rest” don’t you understand?
No, they cannot rest there as those are ECONOMY sears with no curtain around them.
When involuntarily downgraded on the same flight, passengers aren’t entitled to compensation…completely inaccurate. Both vol and invols are due compensation. In most cases invol compensation will tend to be significantly higher than vol.
From the DOT website: Bumped passengers are NOT eligible for compensation in the following situations:Downgrading – A passenger is downgraded from a higher class of seating to a lower class. In this case, the passenger is entitled to a refund for the difference in price.
In this situation it’s critically important to document the price of the lower class options when you book the ticket. Otherwise the airline will refund you the cost difference between what you paid for the premium cabin at the time of booking and the current hugely inflated last-minute price of the lower class of service.
E.g. you paid $5,000 for your business ticket that you booked on June 1st. At that time premium economy was $1200, a fare difference of $3800. When you are involuntarily downgraded and premium economy is selling for $2800 as the flight is departing on Oct 1st they will only refund you the $2200 difference, until you give them proof that you are actually due $3800.
Very good point
was it $2500 plus guaranteed bu siness on the next available LAX-LHR flight? Then I’d take it!
I might do that too, if there were a flight shortly after that, I didn’t have specific time constraints, they let me change the return flight with at no cost due to the change, and the same held for whoever I was traveling with. But I would not fly from LAX to LHR in a coach seat for $2500, especially since business class is more than $2500 above the cost of a coach ticket.
When are the airlines going to accept — or be made to accept — that their aggressively dismissive behavior towards the paying public fuels a good portion of the anti-social behavior of passengers? I’m not excusing the bad behavior of miscreant passengers and, in fact, I favor ruthlessly punishing every single one of them. But for those of us who do not behave badly (ever) on airplanes, it is high time we started demanding the airlines answer for their fail to recognize their role in all this turmoil and all but foment the bad behavior. Threating 250+ passengers with a canceled flight for no fault of any of the passengers? Yeah…great plan United Airlines; my heart swells with endearing love and appreciation for you!
This!
When you are ready to pay 200% more for coach, you as a standard passenger are just meat to them. Customers who demand more but will only pay bottom dollar will always be treated indifferent by the airlines.
The expectation of premium service while paying low dollar is what drives airlines batty. Paying more for less service is what drives customers batty.
Let’s face it, the air travel experience is not very good right now and until something gives, it will continue to do so. It’s a total mismatch of expectations.
This is an FAA requirement. They flight would have been cancelled. Maintenance tried to fix the crew area but could not so UAL had the option of either cancelling the flight or getting some passengers to move. And actually I believe they could have forced some passengers off the plane.
Much better to get a few passengers to move (and pay them to do so) than cancel and inconvenience all the passengers on the plane as well as incur all the cost associated with a cancelation.
The info regsrdimg Dr Dao isn’t complete. He was not force able removed because of the reason stated.
He agreed to and came off come off the plane to be rebooked. Then , when presented with the alternative flight of the next day, he said no, he needed to be there, then he breached security, ran back ON to the plane and refused to get off.
That bis why he was physically removed.
That’s not what happened. He was dragged off the plane before he tried to reboard:
Dao refused to leave his seat and initially screamed as he was forcefully removed, then fell silent as he apparently lost consciousness. In the process, he suffered injuries to his head and mouth when, according to another passenger, aviation security officer James Long threw him against the armrest before dragging him down the aisle by his arms, apparently unconscious. During the altercation, several passengers distressed by the incident voluntarily left the aircraft. Passengers stated that officers laughed as Dao was dragged from the plane. The four United employees then sat in the vacated seats.
–> Shortly afterward, Dao boarded the aircraft again with blood coming from his mouth, repeatedly saying “I have to go home” and “just kill me”. After he collapsed in a seat, he was removed from the aircraft on a stretcher. The remaining passengers were then directed to exit the plane while the blood was cleaned up.
If you treat your customers, especially your high-paying business customers, like cattle, don’t wonder why they look to fly on other airlines in the future. If I were running the airline, I would offer the inconvenienced flight attendants some money to take their rest in an Economy Plus seat, even though their union contract might give them a lie-down seat. The flight attendants would probably do fine in an Economy seat, and if they came away with an extra $2500 for the flight, would probably queue up to volunteer. Why inconvenience your best customers???
Whenever I see United flight attendants, they are sitting in the galley gossiping and nose-deep in People Magazine or playing Candy Crush on their phones. Certainly they can do that in Economy/Economy Plus.
Same thing happened on BA12 from Singapore last night. 22 business seats vacated because of unserviceable bunks.
The rest requirements aren’t just something the flight attendant unions “demand” they are a part of the regulators
requirement but in keeping with BA trends this happened in the A380.
Wow! 22? did you type that number correctly? I don’t think that there are 22 flight attendants on any flights that I’ve been on.
Yes 22 cabin crew on the A380! Don’t forget it has two decks.. 469 seats in all over 4 classes.
Crazy world with insanely unfair rules. If I book lay-flat seats for the outrageous price that the airlines charge then I obviously do not want to be in sardine class. Business Class passengers do not want the monetary difference, ergo the class and price difference thus refunding the ticket difference obviously isn’t equitable.
Poor planning for equipment failure could be remedied when the plane arrives at the gate and the passengers disembark. There’s still time for maintenance to be called over to review what is fixable or not. The crew working the flight should board and verify the features of their quarters will work before clearing the gate to allow passengers to board. If it is found that they will need lay flat seats, the gate agents can make an announcement to ask people to volunteer for a downgrade before everyone boards. The downgraded compensation should be documented in print and signed by both parties for legal CYA.
how is it that flight attendants can’t work 10 hr. without a horizontal rest period? W-T-F? Talk about being entitled.
And they’re willing to inconvenience the paying customer? REALLY? Suck it up for 1 flight and be happy you have a well-paying job.
It’s a complicated system and I understand non-crew/airline reader confusion and outrage but the rest
requirement is not really just about having a nap on a flat bed because of entitlement…
I can explain if anyone wants to listen but it isn’t just about that one flight and a flight attendant being anal.
it’s also- amongst other factors – about what is the individual’s body clock doing as well. Example:
I report at say 335pm or a flight from London to Vancouver.
The flight leaves at 515pm – I have not been sitting around in those 2hrs 40min that elapse I have work to do.
The flight arrives in Vancouver at 7pm BC time which is 3am according to my body clock and what my body needs to stay
OK but I don’t get to bed until about 5am, body time , because of post flight checks, immigration and getting to the hotel.
The next night I have to be back at the airport for the return at 9pm BC time, 5am according to my body. That is
two nights without restful sleep, requiring sleep a time my body doesn’t feel the need. When I get home, I have 3 days off and might
have to go to LA or Sao Paulo or just about anywhere with the same knock on demand.
So, I need an adequate rest facility onthe aircraft. There isn;t an airline in the world that doesn’t have this requirement.
I would also add that this United incident is rare. A BA flight from Asia did the same thing the other night as someone mentioned above. What I would agree with is that there are ways to communicate information and how to behave if your job suddenly demands that of you (telling X number of people “you’re downgraded” (or alternative on another flight) most US and BA fall down on that score.
What did they do before full flat seats? They managed with a regular seat. This is corporate and union over reach
It sounds like United has fairly frequent problems requiring pax to give up seats for crew – not the hallmark of a well-run airline. If the required crew rest area is out of order, the plane is out of order – no ifs, ands, or butts. To deplane and wait for a replacement aircraft would have been the responsible solution instead of causing a media circus. One more reason I avoid UA wherever possible.