A married couple who were hoping to travel from Washington Dulles to Edinburgh in United’s Polaris International Business Class have discovered the hard way why you should avoid booking seats 4A or 4B on the airline’s Boeing 757 aircraft.
The problem, it turns out, is that you could end up forfeiting your paid-for seat so that one of the pilots can have a rest and depending on where you are flying, there are few consumer protections to save you from being downgraded to Economy.
Taking to Reddit, the couple’s son-in-law explained how they had been hoping to fly with Washington Dulles to the Scottish capital on August 3 but due to bad weather across the Northeast, the flight ended up getting canceled and they were rebooked on a new flight the next day.
8/4 UA978 Passenger bumped so pilot can sleep?
byu/69PhillipJFry inunitedairlines
United assigned them seats 4A and 4B for the short transatlantic crossing but when they got onboard the 25 year old plane for the overnight flight, a crew member told them that one of the seats was no longer available and one of them would have to be downgraded.
The reason that the seat couldn’t be used wasn’t because it was broken but because it had been reserved for a pilot to use for rest during the flight… and what you might not know is that seat 4A and 4B on United’s 757 fleet is regularly used for pilot rest.
Unlike some long-haul aircraft, the Boeing 757 was never designed with dedicated crew rest facilities as it was primarily intended to be used on shorter international hops that didn’t require bunk facilities to comply with federal flight crew rest regulations.
The problem, however, is that United sometimes needs to ‘augment’ its flights with more than two pilots. In these cases, the third and potentially fourth pilot will occupy the reserved Business Class seats 4A and 4B.
Thankfully, this isn’t an issue that crops up all the time but United generally blocks out 4A and 4B from being booked until 60 hours prior to departure. At that point, the airline should have a good idea whether the flight crew will be ‘augmented’ and if only two pilots are due to operate the flight, then seats 4A and 4B will be released to book for passengers.
In this case, it looks like the 4A and 4B had been unblocked within the 48-hour window, allowing the couple to be booked into seats but, for whatever reason, the flight got an extra pilot assigned and then one of these seats was needed for crew rest.
Of course, if the flight isn’t fully booked in Business Class, United can simply reassign an affected passenger to a different seat but when the cabin is full, the only option is to downgrade the passenger who was meant to sit in 4A or 4B.
What’s really frustrating, though, is the fact that there are few consumer protection regulations which will help someone caught up in this kind of situation.
Under US rules, the couple has little redress and would only potentially be eligible for compensation if they were completely denied boarding. That being said, United should, at the very least, offer to repay the fare difference between the Business Class seat and Economy.
Consumer aviation rules in the United Kingdom are generally stronger than in the US, although changes brought about by Brexit have exposed a loophole that would negate United from paying compensation.
When the UK left the European Union is adopted its own version of the bloc’s famous airline consumer protection rules, which includes mandatory reimbursement for being downgraded.
In the case of long-haul flights, downgraded passengers are entitled to a refund of 75% of the ticket price, but there’s a very important caveat. Unlike the EU’s version, the rule only kicks in if you are departing the UK on any airline or arriving in the UK on a British or European airline.
If the downgrade had occurred from Edinburgh to Washington Dulles, then United would be on the hook for paying compensation, but in this case, British law doesn’t apply, and United doesn’t owe downgrade reimbursement compensation.
It’s important to note that United tries to limit the ability of passengers to book seat 4A or 4B on its 757 fleet in the first place, but you need to be extra careful within the last 60 hours prior to departure when a ‘block’ will be removed on these seats based on the assumption at that time that a third or fourth pilot isn’t operating the flight.
I tend to think that UA plays fair with this stuff, but I disagree here. They should downgrade the lowest “ranking” pax in business. Meaning, anyone on an award ticket, especially if they have no UA status. I’d be beyond mad if this happened to me (1k and always cash J).
Your ranking is misguided. Miles have no lower value than cash. Plus you likely purchased on credit and not cash. Your entitlement shows off and we are left wondering what do you do with the miles you earn flying paid J. Pair of Bose headphones?
Instead of trying to rank customers who have all the same right to their confirmed J seat, you might direct your anger at UA for overbooking their J class. Plus, why would they need a crew rest for a flight that is clocked at less than 8hr anyways? Who else is paid while sleeping while deadheading? Are Y-seat so uncomfortable that a pilot could not sleep on it?
I may be old fashioned, but I will just say this. If United is bumping me from my paid business class seat to economy class, reimburse me the cost of my business class ticket. Simple. Reimburse me in cash, not those vouchers or points.
They now, even for May flights, wanting an additional $1200 per passenger. This is $2400 more for couple. I only noticed because my wife saw the story.
Sure didn’t know this!
What other ‘hidden seat rules’ are there o Uniteda and other airlines! Please share here!!
This practice is wrong. I guess that United would rather lose paying customers than honor their original seat assignments. I’d be absolutely livid with United! Look at all the bad press that this issue is garnering.
You need to thank UA leadership and their inability to negotiate a Union contract that obliges the paying customer. I am 64 and think that both UA and AA suck.
Horrible customer service by United. Shows large legacy airlines don’t care about paying passengers. Welcome to ‘Unfriendly Skies’. Downgraded passengers should have an option to reject downgrade and get full refund.
KLM recently did the same thing to another couple travelling on fully paid business ticket. Stay away from these airlines.
It isore like entitlement of flight crew that have you buckle up for , 8h at times in your sardine can while their contract allow crew to be paid while sleeping in J.
The only solution to this is full flight deck automation.
And don’t sell me the need for rested pilots when many of them are deadheading from other states, if not other continents, prior to their flight duties.
That flight is like 7 hours. Absurd to assign a crew rest seat. The pilot can ride the jump seat or economy. They should NEVER downgrade a premium passenger.
Simply not ok.
It’s usually 1A for pilot crew rest. The second one is 1L or row 1 on the right side of the plane. Never heard of a row 4 being crew rest and I’ve been flying UA/CO for many many years. Occasionally they block out 1A ahead of time. I’ve been bumped a few times even up to date of departure but never downgraded. The story doesn’t sound right to me.
Incorrect. Pilot crew rest has always been 4A. This is contractual .
Total greed by the airline! If they are used for pilot why are they sold to the punlic? GREED!
It’s not greed. AA does it too on certain planes. It’s if one of the pilots are getting a check ride & a check airman is on that flight. It’s not every flight or they wouldn’t book it!
https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/bumping-oversales#:~:text=Downgrading%20%2D%20A%20passenger%20is%20downgraded,of%20an%20airline's%20regular%20schedule.
This is the rule. Entitled to compensation.
United’s policy is not to automatically move the person in 4A. They 1st do an oversale and try to get volunteers. If they do not get one, there is a downgrade list the agent follows that is based on upgrades and fare class. The lowest one on the totem pole gets the boot. In this situation 4A could’ve been a coincidence. The person moved will also get credited the fare difference.
It was 1A on a UA flight that I took recently to Asia.
I doubt you were on a 757 flying to Asia.
Just what I need. Another reason not to fly united.
United needs to make this right! I have seen at least three instances this happened this year. Most of the time, some upgraders got downgraded. I bet there were some really unhappy elites. FAs/GAs were often ignorant and rude and made the situation worse.
I’m so glad all you people are not flying United again. More room for me. United is an amazing operation and 99% of staff are hard working straight shooters. This is an outlier scenario on an outlier route/config scenario., take a breath people.
There needs to be a directory of airlines and aircraft models where seats purchased could either be at jeopardy of change or the seat is not exactly the same as one would expect.
For example I booked comfort plus on a AA flight hosted on a CRJ.
Turns out due to the smaller overall width of the fuselage there are several seats with a fixed width. A width that is smaller than even an economy seat. I requested to pay for a first class upgrade, but the gate agent said no way. I asked the FA nicely that if anything opens up to let me know. He did and I relocated.
Where are you getting your info from??? That is far from the truth! STOP POSTING shit that is true.
The EU has very strong rules protecting passengers. We need better protection in the US